SLAyyy: Second Language Acquisition for Everyone
Join Ben (he/him), Bryan (he/they), and Bill (he/him) as they Gaslight (reflect), Gatekeep (read research), and Girlboss (share successes) language teaching!
SLAyyy: Second Language Acquisition for Everyone
Ep. 13: SLAyyy Positive Classroom Environments with Kei Tsukamaki
Gaslight
Humor Doesn’t Always Work
Not Being Intentional
Some Things Don’t Work In YOUR Context
Thinking Expected Behaviors Are Obvious
Gatekeep - Kei Tsukamaki, ACTFL National Language Teacher of the Year 2025
Dog Training Teaches Us About Classroom Environments
The ABCs
Taking Time for Reflection
Prioritizing Relationships and Routines
Girlboss
Understanding Students’ Responses to Questions
Hallway Conversations That Honor Student Agency
Values
References
Arise by Elena Aguilar
Fenzi Food For Thought - “Force Free Beyond Training” (dog training podcast about R+ as a way of life)
Cog-Dog Radio (a dog training podcast Kei recommends)
“Plenty in Life is Free” by Kathy Sdao, a book by a former US Navy dolphin trainer
Dog Training Instagram Accounts Kei Recommends:
R+ Dogs
Tails of Connection
Rachel Laurie Harris
Text us about how you’ve Gaslit, or Girlbossed your language classroom.
Email us at SLAyyyForEveryone@gmail.com
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Slay's Second Language Acquisition for Everyone. are honored to have a special guest today who is going to share their wisdom and knowledge with us and who was highlighted as part of the Actual Teacher of the Year award. Kate Tsukamaki is a Washington Association for Language Teaching Teacher of the Year, the Pacific Northwest Council for Languages Teacher of the Year. And the Actful 2025 National Language Teacher of the Year. Okay, we are so excited to have you as a guest on our podcast. Hello, how are you?
Kei:I'm doing really well. Thank you so much for having me here.
FishRod:We are so pleased to have you on the podcast and would love to put as a podcast, a plug in for the Teachers of the Year programs. These are great ways to get to meet other educators to reflect on your professional development and all sorts of things. So if you know somebody who is really crushing it out there, nominate them for an award. The best things that come of it are that they feel really professionally embraced and hugged, from experience. So, Kay, tell us a little bit about your teaching career, how you got to where you are now.
Kei:Yeah, of course. So I am third generation Japanese American, but I grew up speaking only English at home. So I was really fortunate to learn both Spanish and Japanese starting Spanish in middle school and then taking Japanese at high school and college. So one of those people who always knew what I wanted to be, and I've always wanted to be a teacher. It was really, it's been really great for me to be able to teach Japanese. I added my Spanish. Spanish endorsement back in so I'm certified to teach both, but currently I teach Japanese 1 AP at a public high school, grades 9 12, in Kirkland, Washington, just northeast of Seattle.
FishRod:Slay. You also do some district level language program coordination, is that right?
Kei:Yes this year I'm part time working at my district office, helping support world language teachers in all the programs that we have in our district.
FishRod:Amazing. And then you are traveling the nation as the actual Teacher of the Year for 2025. How is that going so far?
Kei:It's been really wonderful. The first conference I went to was at the end of January. I went to the Southwest conference down in Phoenix. And like you were saying about the whole actual Teacher of the Year program, really the, one of the greatest parts of this is getting to go around and meet other educators and learn from them. And these conferences are such great opportunities to see teachers who in very similar contexts, but also teachers who have very different contexts and being able to see what ideas there are at all levels, right, from pre k up through university. the three other conferences are in March, and then PNCFL is in April.
FishRod:Yes, in Anchorage. So that'll be lots of good fun. So we invited you on the podcast because we know that you have a lot of professional expertise to share. And you wanted to share with us about creating positive classroom environments. And so Bill, Brian and I are going to guess light ourselves or speak of how we have previously guessed that ourselves in the process of trying to create positive classroom environments. But maybe failing at that or coming short of our ideals.
bill:Sometimes, I guess, let myself into thinking I'm funny.
FishRod:Sometimes humor does not come off
bill:Yeah.
FishRod:the developmental of your, your audience. You know, sometimes sarcasm literally doesn't register as anything other than meanness. And so you can think you're having some fun bantering and a student can take it super seriously. So yeah, developmental appropriateness, but also.
bill:Yeah.
FishRod:we are funny 100 percent of the time.
bill:No, I was talking more like they're trying to make me believe that I'm not funny and
Bryan:are they failing or winning?
bill:sometimes winning, sometimes failing, but I, I said from the beginning of the year to be cringes to be free. And I am free.
FishRod:I think that, I came in with a goodwill towards children generally, which I think should perhaps be a prerequisite. I don't know how exactly you would certify that in an exam. But I think I generally was like, I do like working with children, and like, I think this is going to be great. And I think that, In the beginning, I assumed that I could ride that goodwill and that sort of feeling that I was going to do a good job and that, you know, the vibes are going to be immaculate because, you know, I'm good at banter and I have fun and I was trying to make it different from their language classes or their other classes or whatever that, that that was going to take me where I wanted to go. And then you butt up against, you know Children are individual human beings coming to the classroom with a variety of experiences. And so some things worked, some things didn't. But I think the lack of, like self awareness in the process also me from making the positive environment I wanted because I thought it would just establish itself rather than me actually taking steps to establish it.
bill:Yeah, so I know that we've mentioned a couple of times on a couple of different episodes about how, like. Students, at least like in most of our context, where they're starting to take language later, maybe in high school, middle school or high school, like they know how to take a history class. They know how to take an English class. They know how to take a math class. and. I think, like, yeah, my, my best intentions to, make my class be the best version of that, of it, that it could be assumed that they would be able to just easily figure out this completely wild and different class. finding balance, and between, the seriousness, I'm doing air quotes, the seriousness of school with, like, the playfulness of language.
Bryan:I think about when I tried to implement, like, something I had seen while I was studying at the Concordia Language Villages in Minnesota, shouts out to them where they have language immersion programs for a lot of different languages In the summer and also that during the school year different links, things like that. Anyway, one of the things that they do is that students. Children wear, like, a name tag with their language name on it, and by choosing to be, they call it different things in different languages, but, like, language master, essentially, it's like, you get to wear, like, a special lanyard that means that you commit to only speaking the language for a certain amount of time, and I was like, that's great, like, these kids seem super pumped and motivated to use the language, and, like, something about the idea that they are choosing to do it, it's not something that's being forced upon them,, seemed to be in alignment with what I had You know, been taught about how motivation should work in theory with students. And so I was like, I'm gonna take this back to my classroom and try it. So I had them all make little language master, lanyards. And I said, like, hey, if you want to, you can put it on and say, I'm committing to only speaking in French during class. And you know, maybe the more people do that, like, we can get some class rewards or something like that. And it was a disaster. I, you know, like, at the camps, they would do, like, a little song when it was time to put it on, and, like, everyone's, like, you know, in the groove, and, like, it was something, it's, like, something cultural, right, something cultural was very present there that, like, You can't really build from scratch. I don't know if that makes sense, but like, There were, there were some students who were just completely not into it at all. They didn't ever try. Then there were other students who were only into it for the singing part. And then like, they'd put it on and then start speaking English anyway. And like, well, okay, well now you have to take it off. And like, it just became too much to manage. It just, it didn't work. So I was like, we're not doing this anymore. And then it was funny because at some point this school year, a student was like, Hey, why don't we do the language master thing anymore? I'm like, well, because it didn't work. And I could see the like wheels turning in their head. And I was like, yeah, it wasn't just a little fun song thing. And I had actual reason for doing it, you know? And so I do think I still have a positive, generally positive class culture. It's just, I just know my students enough to know that something like that doesn't work with them. So.
FishRod:Yeah, come into interaction sometimes to thinking that. Students do know what it's for and why and like also how to do stuff. Like I've been talking to my friend who is a teacher in California as well. And he's like, they misspelled the name of the book in the, in the report. And I'm like, cause they do that sometimes. Or like, you know, it seems obvious that you shouldn't, I don't know, like smack each other with the clipboard or throw a book or something like that. And then they do it and you're like. seems obvious to me as, like, a, an adult who, you know, acculturated them in this, like, professional environment sort of situation. They just, like, don't seem to know the reasons, but that, you know, sometimes also the specific behaviors that we're like, Oh, those are duh behaviors, and then they don't do it, and we're like, How dare they?
bill:Yeah, something on that too with like gaslighting ourselves is just only only telling students what not to do rather than demonstrating what to do. And I might have a girl boss about that later, but. just these are the reasons why we're doing,, I'm asking you to do this because this and I've had a long standing thought that students really want to know why we're doing things just like the long term, I can do this at the end of the year, but like, want to know how it's building because we know just like people in general, are very, tend to be short sighted. So what, what's in it for me now? So trying to explain like, yeah, here's why we're doing this for the longterm. But in the short term, this is why it's important.
FishRod:So, Kay, you proposed the idea of talking about positive classroom environments and then also shared that some of your thinking about this topic came from an unlikely source, which was dog training take us on that journey. How did, how did that inspire your thinking about positive classroom environment? And where has it taken you now?
Kei:So I've been teaching for 14 years. And so listening to what you were sharing about, I think I'm funny or like I'm trying this activity that the kids think is kind of cute, but aren't really like getting totally resonates because that was me, you know, all all along. But like Ben said, My thinking around building positive classroom environments really kind of changed. My husband and I adopted our dog in April 2020, and she is, you know, a pandemic pup, didn't get out much and has what you might call fear based reactivity, which is she's scared of other dogs. And it comes across as she'll bark and lunge on the leash, and it's her way of saying, like, I'm afraid, so stay away from me. She's trying to, you know, get distance. she is a large dog, and I am a small human. And I was like, I need to find a way to, like, stop this, right? And so I went down the rabbit hole of following Dog trainers on social media and trying to figure out what can I do in the middle of a pandemic where we can't go out and, you know, do things in person. so I kind of stumbled across what is called positive reinforcement, or sometimes it's spelled R plus all sometimes called force free. And it's a. It's a way of training, but it's more than just a training method. So it's not just a fun, like, thing that you do. It's, I really started to think that it's like a philosophy. It's a way of thinking. Some people call it a whole way of being. that really shifts your mindset and how we approach building classroom environments. In dog training, it's this whole philosophy that you prioritize the learner, in this case the animal's welfare. It really emphasizing understanding the animal's needs and contexts, and it puts a huge burden on the dog owner, the dog trainer, our context as teachers. the instructor, it puts the burden on us to stay curious and be able to identify what is the behavior that we're seeing. What are the contexts where we're seeing that behavior? What are the skills that the learner is lacking that I, the instructor, need to proactively teach? And how do I set up the entire environment to predispose that learner for success? And then the positive part is you are rewarding the desired behaviors. So a lot of this is very similar to PBIS, which I know is more common in elementary schools, but it's Positive Behaviors Intervention Supports. And it really focuses on a lot of these same concepts, welfare or, you know, social emotional learning. I just want to mention positive reinforcement in the dog training world has a lot of crossover with like large animal trainers. The, there's a lot of sources of people who like train dolphins to detect underwater mines for the US Navy, or people who work in zoos and train, you know, the lions and tigers and bears, oh my, to, you know, like come get their teeth cleaned or things like that. You can't use force against big animals like that and fun fact people think cats are untrainable but it's just that cats don't learn from punishment and we live in a very punishment or you know compliance based society so this is a big shift thinking about How do we set up the environment? How do we look at the whole context and not just like stop that behavior? Stop what you're doing? But I think like Bill said, it's about what do I want you to do instead, right? Teaching those behaviors. So for me, positive reinforcement training for my dog has really helped me consider if I'm willing to do all of this for my dog, and then I walk in my classroom and I'm like, Whoa, that is like not what I'm doing with my human students. It was, it took a lot of thinking and a lot of self reflection. It takes a lot of humility, right? Like you try something new and you take. Or I find myself falling back into the, these old practices of, you know, you're doing something I, you know, you use proximity or redirection or one on ones, or if it's escalating, you send them to the office, you put in a referral or you're contacting families, but none of that really addresses the, why is the student doing this? Behavior is a communication of a need. What is the need that's not getting met? And how do I, as the teacher, help? address that as best I can. So, that's kind of the whole big picture of what got me going on this.
FishRod:Incredible. I'm thinking about I wrote down a couple of things that you had said. And the first thing is that fear based reactivity. And I. I think of sometimes the reactions that I see in students when we start using, for instance, high levels of target language is that, you know, like, it is so unusual from their nature, which is to speak their native language, right? Or to speak the language of schools, you know, English. To just be like, no, in here, I only do this. And I think that because language is so fundamental to our identities, I could see a fear based reaction to that. And so I think that some of the behaviors that we see early on, like in, in lower level courses with novices who don't have a lot of language in their system, yeah, it could be a fear. And you know, preparing for that and accommodating for that is going to make that outcome a lot better for them as well as for the vibe in your class.
bill:Yeah. Something that I was thinking about earlier today was, I know there's like. Different different opinions on whether or not to use like bell ringers, do nows, whatever. I think though that it can be gentle way to ease the students into the language for the day. Like just kind of a reminder like, hey, we're in Spanish class. I was thinking about how I was to do more retrieval practice, and why is it important that you don't back at your notes during that time? I was like, because I want you to see, I want you to get back into the space. I want you to start using your Spanish brain pull the, pull out what you can, and then, so we can get into class and today I, Like reused what they did the bell ringer for, like, it was like a, what do you remember from the other day? And then they use that those summary sentences later. and I thought that was kind of like a model that I should try to do more. Not only here, get into, your head into the right space for class, but also let's make sure to bring that back as well to that like you brought in is useful.
FishRod:So once you identified this, like as a system and a philosophy, and I can attest via personal experience that Kay's dog is very lovely and a sweet angel baby from heaven. So when, when you started thinking about training. baby raven in this way. And then applying kind of those, those lessons learned to your classes. Where did that take you?
Kei:Yeah. I mean, a simple example would be, like you, I'm sure we've all had it, like the kid who, you're like, okay, it's time to write, and the student walks up and goes to sharpen their pencil and talks to, you know, 1, 800 people on their way over, which is a feat when you have 36 in the room. And so, maybe you're talking to this kid about, you know, please stop disrupting class, you know. Whatever, right? And maybe the student does this all the time. Maybe nothing you're trying is working, right? Even if you're like, go sharpen your pencil and sit down, don't talk to other people. so, thinking about, you know, helping Raven with her reactivity, and then thinking about my student, it would be like approaching this with curiosity. So in dog training positive reinforcement, they talk about the ABCs. the A is the antecedent. What is the context or like the trigger that is causing the behavior? So for the student it would be, you have to figure it out, but maybe it's that you're asking them to write, right? So maybe you have to talk to the other teachers that the student has, and you find out the kid is doing this in all their classes. But if you only label the kid as, quote, disruptive, or, quote, defiant for not what you're saying, you would not really be able to identify the antecedent. The context where this behavior shows up is you're asking them to write. And the behavior is they're maybe avoiding the task, they're getting their peers attention. They've got your attention while they're talking to you, and they end up not having to write, or they're losing out on writing time, so they don't have to write as much, and so maybe You know, that's the consequence. That would be the C, and that's not like a negative consequence, but they're getting something out of that behavior, it's rewarding them. So it's a self perpetuating cycle. So the teacher, like, maybe you can identify if this only happens when I'm asking the kid to write and not when I'm asking them to turn to a partner and talk. Maybe this behavior is showing up because they lack confidence or they lack skills and being able to write. And so the intervention would be providing the student with scaffolds or having them partner up or, you know, having them do. Provide sentence stems and do brainstorming and then they get that social interaction by turning to a partner and sharing ideas Before they have to sit down and write and so for me Working with my dog and being like what are your what's your emotional state? And what's the underlying reasons that you're acting like this instead of just being annoyed or embarrassed that he's doing this in public and then being able to transfer that to my My human students to be like, everything that you're doing most likely not to annoy me, right? It has nothing to do with me. For the most part, I believe my students are, you know, not malicious staying up at night plotting ways to bother me. So for, for me, that's kind of the mindset and it does take a lot of energy to, to not just fall back on the, will you just sit down? Will you just stop talking? But really trying to figure out what it is. that the kid is trying to get out of what they're doing.
FishRod:I love the, the thoughtfulness and the reflection that is inherent in that, that is an important part of our profession generally. But turning that sort of generosity and thought towards the humans in front of us is super important. And I think it's easy to get caught up in. The nitty gritty of lesson planning and what language was used in, quote, Todd, instead of, you know, thinking about the little humans in front of us every day. Please, please, ungatekeep for us, your advice if we want to make classroom environments that are positive for students, that are thoughtful and reflective and responsive what are some things that we can do?
Kei:One thing to consider in all of this is that when we are thinking about our learners and prioritizing their welfare and well being, really about focusing on our relationship between them as the learner and us as the teacher. And I really feel like this comes from a place of love, and it can't be from a place of, like, compliance, or do this because I am the teacher, do this because I say so. Do this because I have the power in our relationship. And so again, this whole idea of positive reinforcement training and dogs to me is really similar to like trauma based instruction or culturally responsive teaching. And it really comes from a place of. Prioritizing that relationship. And really wanting the welfare of that individual. And it's not positive reinforcement isn't just a technique that's going to like quote work. It's not just a tool, which we have lots of tools in our toolbox. But thinking about, you know, what has worked and what I've learned, positive reinforcement being a mindset, right? A way of being how I show up in the world in my classroom. and foremost is reminding myself that I am a teacher in our existing system, and there are things that I cannot control and that I cannot change. So approaching this with A sense of grace and just understanding I'm going to be trying things. It's different for me, and it's really different for the students. They may not respond right away because they'll have no idea. They're like, what the heck are you doing? This is odd. Right? I think some ideas to consider first is really focusing on building a democratic classroom. So positive reinforcement dog training focuses on encouraging the dog's agency and choice. Dogs are, you know, captive animals. They're pets, but we humans get a lot to decide. about. And students in our classrooms have some parallels. There's a lot of things they don't have control over. So building that foundation and that environment from the first day, you know, things like co creating classroom agreements setting up self service stations for supplies. I have recently learned this from a colleague that just like blows my mind. Why should a student have to ask me where the tape is or if they can get another pencil? If they know where those things are, it can build their own sense of, oh, I know how to do this and I can do it on my own. and then teaching routines, right? Where do you turn in your papers? Where's the hall room pass? When can you take breaks? Even just letting students know that they can advocate for themselves. Like I tell my students if you are having a bad day, please tell me and I can not call on you. You can sit outside of the circle. You can, you know, only work with preferred people for the day. Really being proactive about making sure our students I think that they have agency and being able to access that, I think is like one major starting point. Another one, that comes from, you know, thinking about an individual's welfare, is just think about basic needs, right? Do you have policies in your classroom for students? Are they allowed to eat or drink? Can they not? students, I have fans in my room and students know that they can go turn them on or turn them off and they can make the fans like a tornado or they can make them really like not windy. So they have control over all of that within reason. And then just some of the neuroscience right? Students, I've heard they have like an attention span that's about one minute per their, how old they are. So if you're lecturing for 20 minutes, that's too long. Building and movement breaks, of course, hitting all the different skill areas. Balancing group activities versus individual activities. And then, as the teacher, it's my job to accommodate these needs proactively from the planning stage. So fail is when I don't think about that until in the moment, and then I get flustered and you're like, I don't know what to do, this isn't working. And just being intentional about that from the beginning. ABCs. So really staying curious. I know when I'm getting agitated by a student's behavior, it's super easy to just react and be like, Why are you doing that? Why don't you just but really stepping back and thinking about what is causing the behavior? What is the context? What exactly is it that the student is doing and trying to be as descriptive as possible? And then what is the consequence? Like, what is the student getting? That they might want. And I found in my district, we, or my school, we have to fill out forms for students on IEPs when we're behavior tracking. A lot of this is useful for any student where I'm seeing some sort of behaviors that I would like to not see. But it helps me to stay curious and ask these questions. Two more is I have a hashtag on my Instagram that's hashtag my students are dogs and a subtitle and so are yours. But in the best of ways dogs don't have morals. They don't know right from wrong. Right? I like to think of my students as, again, not doing things intentionally to annoy me, or they don't stay up at night plotting the destruction of my self esteem. like, young children also don't have morals. We have to teach them that, right? Older students. They're supposed to know, but we're also part of their continuing education of what is right and wrong and acceptable and not. And so, reminding myself to consider my students behavior from a very neutral lens. Even when they're really angry, I had a student say, I hate your effing class. You know, leave me the f belief alone. And I was able to just be like, wow, it sounds like you're having a really hard time. I don't appreciate you saying that to me. Let's go out and talk about it. But reminding myself that had nothing to do with me. He had so much going on. And something else was motivating his behavior, right? It had nothing. It was not me. so reminding myself that I'm the adult in the room, and. I have the fully developed prefrontal cortex. I need to control my own emotions. Otherwise, I can't expect my students to do that. my response in that moment, like, says more about who I am than about what they just did. anything that I do in response to a student's behavior can either strengthen our relationship or damage it. And again, if I'm prioritizing my relationships with my students, as part of that positive classroom environment, that's where I really need to spend all my energy. And then the last tip is being willing to stay self reflective, like you're trying something new. And we want our students to take risks and make mistakes and learn from those mistakes. And if we are not willing to do the same, like we'll never, we'll never be able to keep pushing ourselves and growing. So, you know, if something doesn't work, I have to ask myself, what? Could I have done differently? How could I have set up the environment or structure that activity to encourage student success? Or how can I back up and reteach that skill? If a student is failing a task, rather than blaming them, the student is lazy, they're unmotivated, they don't care. Maybe asking myself, was it too hard? Was it too confusing? What barriers did that student, that individual student have that they couldn't overcome and how can I help them? then, you know, it's happened. We can't take risks as teachers except in front of an audience, which is really scary. but if an entire lesson has falls flat, like don't blame yourself. ask myself, what barriers did I not anticipate facing that prevented me from being successful? And then reminding myself, I have a huge network of support, who can I turn to to bounce some ideas off of or get some support for myself?
FishRod:If you do that enough, you might accidentally start a podcast. Again, speaking from experience. Thank you so much for this. I, this is my brain is worrying and I'm taking little notes on my notebook in front of me. I think I started thinking about some problems in quotation marks that I've been having and started kind of trying to reframe through this positive. I'm thinking of things like blurting in English, they don't know what to say in the target language, they don't know how to contribute in the target language. Can you give them something like a rejoinder to say, or, you know, even just the sentence to say, you know, sentence frames, sentence starters, those sorts of things and keep them readily available. So they can lean on them. Maybe they have them in their notebook in front of them. Maybe they're posted on the walls, that sort of, or just part of the activity. But I think also the, the other one that has been making me confused lately has been the, know, I say, turn and talk to your partner about this and either come to a decision or find some commonalities, that sort of thing. And they just like won't. And I'm like, huh? And sometimes I, I, I've had some more success by being like. Oh, they don't know how to like initiate a conversation like with someone they don't know. Right. And they feel that not knowing them is a barrier to having the conversation at all. So they just don't and both of them are like an agreement that that's the better outcome. Like, like, it's fine. We, I didn't want to talk to anyone. I didn't know. So, like, it's chill that we just sit next to each other. And so, you know, scripting for them, yeah. Hello, how are you today? Oh, I'm good, thank you. How are you? You know, then they have like, the, the wheel is greased a little bit so that when they act, the actual, actual question I'm trying to get them to ask that they like, have already started a conversation and they don't have to, be the one to get the momentum and maybe even starting the entire class saying those words that the exact same time, so that there's no, you know, no escape escape what are some, what are some other girl bosses that we came out and came out of K's gatekeeping, ungatekeeping,
bill:Like, finding out the antecedent of some behaviors, like I know that this year I've had some classes not be as participatory as I would like them to be. And something that I've very recently started, so I don't have the habit yet, but like when I ask an open ended question and I don't get any responses, instead of just waiting for someone to just speak up, I finally have started asking like, Oh, like, is it like una de like lack of words, or una falta de ideas? A lack of ideas, because either one I can help with, but let me know which one, where the problem is.
FishRod:Yeah, I think in justifying our own behaviors, like we're asking these open ended questions or we're asking, you know, maybe if you're asking a whole class core question that we're doing it for a reason, if, and you know, I've, I've said something to the effect too of like, When you don't respond, I either think that you're just really tired and you're just trying to try to, like, not respond, or I think you don't get it. And so I'm going to ask again, just to be clear, which 1 of those 1s it is. And usually the call response is way stronger because they, you know, you know, they got the inertia of just not responding. Right? So, yeah, the curiosity and the, but also explaining the curiosity, like, I'm interested in that thing you just did, kiddos. Like what's what's going on here?
Bryan:I think that in terms of like my classroom management and things like that, like just what you were saying about just trying to understand the antecedent and being curious about like what is causing the student to do whatever they're doing has really helped a lot because I, you know, I remember a time a long time ago where it's just like, it's the rule, you have to do what I say and the teacher or whatever, whatever, because that's what my teachers did. But then I think just more in recent years, I've just been like, Before I say something, I have to, like, stop myself and, like, just wonder what could be going on for that student or, like, I might even prepare, like, some questions I might ask them if I have to pull them out in the hall or something like that. And I often what I do now is, like, I'll take, like, if I do have to take a student out, for example. I will just say, first of all, why have I talked, why, why, why have I taken you out of the classroom? And I have them, like, kind of, nine times out of ten, they know what they did. And then I just ask more questions. So, like, do you think that was a good idea? Is that helping, you know, is this making this a fun class for everyone? Is this helping you learn or not? And usually they can come up with the answers on their own. And it's just, it's so, it feels so much less confrontational. And so I think that has helped. It's contributed to just building better relationships with my students because I've never, I haven't had a power struggle with a student in, like, years,
FishRod:in the world I used to work in, a summer camp world and they likened a power struggle to essentially like a tug of war with a rope. and you just have to drop the rope. You just have to let it go. Right? Like, you just have to say,, I'm not going to be party to this, petty squabble. I'm just going to appeal to their reason as like a human person and be like, I think, you know, that the government pays me to teach you German or French or Spanish or Japanese. And like, when this happens in class, I can't really do that. And you know, kids are like, oh yeah, like totally that. It's like, you can't really, but if it was like, you offended my sensibilities as like a human, and I think you should know what to do. It's like, yeah, you're not going to like, sure. Like, but then, you know, students might interpret it as, like, you yelling at them, as opposed to having a conversation with them and then what does that get is that they come away from the class being like, well, the teacher yelled at me today even if you said things that were literally true that you witnessed with your eyes. No, I wasn't talking well. That's interesting because my auditory senses said otherwise while also looking at you and seeing your mouth move. But do you want to win that battle? Like, do you want to have, do you want to like punk a 15 year old and like, got him, like, maybe examine that need in yourself as well.
bill:I'm taking this class called Leadership as Reflective Practice. So, Been a lot on my mind. And so like some practices that maybe could be good to share with everyone and especially kind of like in, in this moment, these. Kind of like tense moments, especially or potential for tense tension. The different categories that we can like reflect into are like, am I being mindful of the situation? Did I take a moment first to, before I responded like self awareness, like, am I aware of myself? Am I angry right now? Is that going to come out in this interaction? Checking our attitudes, where am I taking taking this in a positive way, am I, am I trying to take it in a negative way, creativity? Like, do I have to take a straightforward response to this or can I figure out an alternative way? then finally, which I think. really what's kind of been helping me a lot recently. It's being true to yourself and like actually finding out who you are and, what is it that is okay. And what is not okay. to you in this learning environment where you're trying to teach students. And and I've just been like very, very reflective on this recently, and it's helped me be very calm. It's helped me accept like, yeah, not every single day is going to be, bright and shiny and being reflective on the environment that we are setting up for our students. So on that, do you by, do you think you have any potential guiding questions that you use when you're thinking about a situation in class?
Kei:I would say it's still not automatic for me. A lot of times this reflection for me happens after the moment, right? Like in the moment something has happened, maybe I'm trying to just reduce harm, like respond in a way that is reminding the student I care about them, prioritizing our relationship, but also giving me space to step back. And think about it. So sometimes these questions are in the shower later that night or me trying to go to bed and I was like, Oh my God, I think I, I understand. Right. But a lot of times, I like what Brian said about, you know, if you have to pull a kid in the hallway, or if you're giving them that space for one on one, approaching it with a, you tell me what, hm, can you tell me what's going on right now? Right? Inviting them into that conversation, reminding them they have agency, and I'm not just there to, like, smack them down about what they did that was wrong. And, you know, if I have that conversation with that student, great, because then that's the question I lead with. Can you tell me why we're out here? Can you tell me what's going on? If it's just me thinking about, okay, that kid is doing that thing again. Maybe trying to think about what can I do in the moment to prevent them from disrupting the class and giving them some space so maybe they can figure out what they need. I often will reach out to other teachers and ask, Are you seeing this specific behavior in your different classes? But again, that starts with me being curious about what it is that I'm seeing and trying to be descriptive. I think those are the questions I might start with.
bill:something that I've been trying to do with, Establishing like a classroom, a positive classroom environment is attaching the desired behaviors or like the appropriate behaviors to our school values. And saying like, Hey, you all are insert mascot. this is who you are when you're here. And these are the things that we as a community have said that we value and maybe we need to update them. That's fine. That happens. All the time we update our values, but when you started the school year, you knew what, what we expected what kind of values we have. So like if if the value is like honesty, yeah make sure that you're like, it's not that you don't cheat because cheating is wrong. don't cheat because that's not a value that we hold. Because that's dishonesty. And I think I've seen some positive improvements outcomes from that.
Kei:I love that idea of tying it to the school values. I'm thinking about when we co create agreements, it could be tied to something like that. Like we agreed in our classroom that looked this way. Or if you have school values and you build your Class agreements around that. Or like PBIS in my school, we have safe, respectful, responsible. They're very broad categories, but defining them, what does that look like to us? And how do we show that we are things? I just think that helps with the buy in. It reminds the kids like you are, you are a part of the environment, right? You are the most important part of this environment in a lot of ways.
bill:And I I've given a few like example behaviors, which is overwhelming. But I try to say like, this is not exhaustive. These are just like some very observable things that I can do for now. And I need them to be observable right now so that we can, I can see whether or not it's happening. Which I think I got that from John Cowart And it has been really game changing even just like for instructions but also for like your finger on the word that we're reading but also with other behaviors. So my question was how do you turn off that reflection when you're at home?
Kei:Another excellent question. I, so am reading a kind of a side note. I am reading the book Arise by Elena Aguilar. I'm doing a book study with the other curriculum specialist and she is a consultant. She teaches coaches how to coach teachers. And her whole method is called transformative coaching. She is a really big believer in you have, your cup has to be full before you can fill someone else's cup. And we all deserve to thrive. And so a lot of what I'm getting from her book is that I need to care of myself before I can try to help taking care of others even if you know Whether that's me coaching other teachers or like in our teaching context. We're taking care of our students So I come home and I prioritize walking my dog All comes full circle, but the days where I missed Walking raven, like I don't feel really good. You know, the doctors are all like go do exercise and get fresh air and the doctors. It's true.
FishRod:It turns out they were right all along. I know. Yeah, I just got on a running schedule and then I'm like, wow, I feel better. Turns out
Kei:keeping that routine if I come home and make sure to take care of myself. me kind of compartmentalize right we talked about having routines for students to get into the You know, our, our language, I think for me, coming home and being with my dog is my, like, I am at home and I turn it off. but the routine helps, helps me with that. Because at a certain point, reflection just becomes like self flagellation and that's not helpful. So I know we've talked a lot about antecedents and, you know, we the teacher have a lot of power in our classroom and a big responsibility to think about what can we do to help our students. What can we do to set up the environment? And as I've been talking tonight, I think about some students I have where, for them, the antecedent or the context where these behavior shows up is school. in school is a major trigger for a lot of our students who are carrying so much emotional baggage or trauma with them. And so this goes back to having grace for ourselves. Is there are things that I cannot control, and there are things that are outside of my of influence to be able to support the student with so turning to colleagues or turning to school counselors or reaching out to the students, families and guardians about, you know, hey, these are the behaviors I'm seeing in school. This is what we're trying, know, what else? What other types of supports does the student have? Just reminding myself that I can't beat myself up about just the fact that school is not where everyone is thriving. And I can do what I can to help them in my little context. But for some students, that context where the behavior is, is in school, in presence of authority figures. So not to end on like kind of a down note, but reminding myself there is a lot that I can influence and be positive. And maybe that student will remember, you know, I do care about them, even if they aren't learning Japanese. might be like as much as they're able to do, or as much as I'm able to do for them. And reminding myself of that, I think, is important.
Bryan:Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's a downer at all. I mean, I think that's a good thing for all of us to remember, like, right? Like, we shouldn't really be putting, making ourselves feel bad because we are not superheroes. we are teachers, we do the best we can, what I think about a lot is, like, what I want my students to remember is that I cared about them, that they can learn a language in some form or another, and that it's important to understand people who are different. So, if they can do that, you know, down the line, I'm happy. And that can get rid of a lot of, like, Yeah, just the angry storm cloud over your head, thinking, like, constantly second guessing yourself. So I think we're just about at our time. And so I wanted to thank you so much for joining us. It's been really great listening to you and just sharing your thoughts and throwing things back and forth about, like, how we have seen trying to create more positive classroom environments in our own contexts. And, yeah, I've definitely learned a lot.
FishRod:Again, I, I, I, from a, from a personal perspective, encourage people to seek out colleagues to honor and nominate for awards and to highlight the good work that they do every day that, you know, often goes unnoticed. And I'm just so thankful for, for Kate for coming on and slaying with us.
Kei:Thanks for having me. It's been awesome.
bill:I
Bryan:Wait.
bill:glad this is recorded so I can listen to it a million times. Thanks.
Kei:Thank you so much.
bill:Bye.
Bryan:Bye.
Kei:Bye.
